An Interview with
'Rob Grad'
(ex-Kik Tracee Bassist & Superfine Guitarist)
by Glenn Milligan
Glenn: Which part of Los Angeles did you originally come from? And what was the scene like there at the time?
Rob: I’m originally from the San Fernando Valley. A suburb of Los Angeles. It was basically the armpit of LA when I was younger. Apparently people want to live there now. I’m still not a fan. But there is comfort there. I moved to Venice Beach after Kik Tracee got signed and stayed for 18 years. Loved it. And I learned a lot about myself living there.
The scene in LA when I was growing will never happen again. I saw Motley Crue in 1982 at the Roxy before they signed to Elektra. You’d see a band in February at the Whisky, and by October they could be superstars on MTV.
Hundreds of kids on the street every weekend handing out flyers for their bands. We were definitely a part of that scene, and at the same time, we thought it started to get played out and lame near the end. So we tried to separate ourselves however we could. Musically, image wise, and with the way we approached everything.
Glenn: Where did the interest in art and music come from initially and how did those early beginnings influence you creatively?
Rob: My father was a concert pianist, but never pursued it. He was incredible. I remember watching him play in our house while he waited for my mother to get ready to go somewhere. She was always late :)
He could still make people cry into his 70’s. Then my sister taught me to play guitar but I wasn’t into it.
I only got interested later when the rock scene broke and my neighborhood friends started a band. I started hearing people like Ozzy and there was an escape there. I felt like these musicians understood my pains and discomforts. My house wasn’t easy growing up. Lots of conflict with my parents. Music was my oasis. I got into art later.
I loved museums. I’d go to museums on tour stops. Also, even though Kik Tracee had a record deal, it stopped being fun, and I stopped enjoying being in the band. So I started painting. I was terrible, but I was looking for a pure creative outlet which music no longer was.
I figured I’d be an artist in my next life or something. But then, years later, I had the idea to do a special technique with photography while I was in a museum on a life changing trip to Madrid and I decided to give it a try.
I got a gallery show pretty much straight away and didn’t look back.
Glenn: Would you say that the creative skill is already instilled in you or can it come after time through one happening or another?
Rob: Great question. My short answer is both. I think there is a creative desire that has to arise in some way. The skills we develop are secondary. All the great geniuses through time worked their asses off too. Van Gogh was nothing special until later. I think you have to be in it for that magic to happen. You’re not born with that. But I do believe you can be born with a natural desire to express yourself creatively. I see it with my daughter. She’s 4. Yeah, maybe it’s because her mother and me are both creative people. But not all of it. And it doesn’t mean she’ll decide to do anything with it in her life. I think it can lie dormant in some people too for whatever reason. It’s at a soul level at that point.
It can either be an event that opens the door…or pain. How many artists in any medium started because something in their lives went awry? I’d venture to say, a huge percentage.
Glenn: Do you find music, lyrics and art intertwine for you with one influencing another or do you find they are separate entities, but you use the same kinda mindset / brain area in order to create them?
Rob: They live together. And I’m actively trying to bring them together even more. It’s one of my points of difference. I started writing poems instead of lyrics, and the words came so much easier. And putting those poems into songs is really fun and an interesting process. I’m so happy breaking out of the traditional mold. That’s part of why I stopped playing music for so long.
It got stale.
The medium is stale. And it doesn’t drive public culture anymore like it did when I was younger. My interest in music and art is much more than the act of creation. It’s communication. Healing. Inspiration. That’s what I’m in it for.
They do have different strengths though. Music is very visceral. Emotional. Art can be those things, but it’s also philosophical. The scope of concepts you can cover is much wider. Music tends to stick with love. Rejection. Disenfranchisement. Art goes more places. I’m loving pairing poems with songs and paintings now. I get to hit an idea from all these different angles.
Glenn: You've been in two different bands – Kik Tracee and Superfine. Looking back, which would you say you have the standout memories of being a member of either for good or bad reasons?
Rob: Both bands have had their ups and downs. Being in a band is like joining a family. And as we all know, families have issues. Any time you get close to someone, let alone 4 or 5 people, it’s a mine field. Especially when everyone is young and in it for their own reasons. That’s what blew up Kik Tracee. Superfine was my answer to that. But I didn’t know how to be a band leader.
Starting Superfine though was one of the most creative periods of my life. It was pure liberation. We just rebooted Superfine actually, and played our first show in over 20 years. Total rush. And now that we’re all actual adults, it’s easy and fun again. We’re in the studio right now recording a new song.
With Kik Tracee, I had a major record deal, was on MTV, and was walking on Venice Beach one morning wishing I could just go to a day job instead of rehearsal. That’s how miserable I was in that band at the end. I guess my wish came true. We did have some great times though. I remember pulling up to an in store at a record store, back when they did those, in Chicago and seeing a line around the block. I asked our tour manager, “what are all those people waiting for?” He said, “you.”
KT also closed for Joe Walsh once. Yep. CLOSED for him. We were supposed to open the show the next night for Poison, but they didn’t want us on the bill for some reason. So our booking agent said we could play with Joe. But after him. He was really cool. Didn’t do an encore. But of course everyone left because no one knew who the hell we were. So I have this surreal memory of playing on this outdoor full arena stage to 400 or so people in the front. It was hilarious. I’ll never forget it.
Glenn: No doubt, many have asked you this a gazillion times, so apologies there, but what lead you to appearing on 'Buffy The Vampire Slayer' back in the day? How was it for you recording that?
Rob: Superfine had a music attorney back then who worked at a big firm with huge bands like Metallica. She was trying to help us out. We had an indie deal with a single out and were doing well at college radio. She offered to send our track in when she heard about the show.
One day I get a call and she says they want us on the show. I said, “did you see that Buffy movie? It was horrible.” She laughed and said it was going to be good, and it was the first show ever really, that was going to highlight indie bands as part of their mission.
My song “Already Met You” that was on that show is still the most popular song I’ve ever played on.
So we showed up on set to be the band in the bar in one of the episodes. It was the first season and so hadn’t aired yet. No one knew it was going to be a global hit. Everyone was really cool. I remember this guy walking in with a trench coat on. He emerged from the shadows like he was going to pull a sandwich out of his pocket. And someone said, “this is Joss Whedon, the creator of the show.”
He was ahead of his time. And he went to bat for us when the record company wanted to leave Superfine off the soundtrack later. Apparently he said “no Superfine, no soundtrack.” And so they put us on. He wanted the soundtrack to have the integrity of the show. And I was told he really liked my song.
I’ll be forever grateful for that.
Glenn: You played Bass in Kik Tracee and then switched to Guitar later on. Have you always been a guitarist or did you switch to that after? Which came first and how or did you learn how to play both at the same time? Do you have a personal preference between them?
Rob: I wrote a lot of the Kik Tracee songs on guitar. So I’ve always sort of played. I really wanted to be a guitar player and singer. I was just about to start taking singing lessons when we met Stephen who became the singer of Kik Tracee. He was great, so I just put it aside.
I wrote a lot of the melodies in Kik Tracee. They just always came naturally to me. And I had a particular style of guitar, more sloppy and raw, that I always heard in my head. I tried to get the KT guys to lean that direction, but they had their own style and were resistant.
I started playing bass first though, mostly because the guys in the neighborhood had a band and needed a bass player. So I figured why not? I didn’t know enough yet about the other instruments to really make a choice.
That was one of the many good things that came from KT falling apart. I got to step out front and sing my own songs. It’s what I always wanted to do. Bass is fine. And I can play proficiently. But it’s not my love.
Glenn: Okay, so you had a reformation of 'Superfine at Maui Sugar Mill Saloon: How did that come to be? How was it after all those years hanging out and performing live again? How did it go over to those present?
Rob: There is a promoter in Los Angeles who booked Superfine a lot back in the 90’s and early 2000’s. He was a pretty notable figure in the underground pop scen in LA at the time. If they wrote a book about the club scene during that time, he’d probably be in it. He and I have been friends for years.
He started promoting again recently and I went to see one of his first shows to say hey. He asked me if I’d be interested in doing a Superfine show. The idea immediately appealed to me.
A couple months later I got the call and said yes. Superfine had a few different lineups during the years it was active. None of the guys that were in any of those versions of the band were really around and available. So I did more of a reboot with friends of mine playing the old songs. It sounds as fresh as ever. I used to wear pajamas at the shows for Superfine. So I took out a pair and went for it.
It went so well, we’re recording a new song and going to do another show in the next month or 2. I also just released digitally for the first time, the original vinyl single recordings that actually appeared on Buffy. The version on the soundtrack was rerecorded in a crazy 24 hour studio session when the original 2” tape was lost and they wanted a remix for the soundtrack.
I remastered the vinyl and it sounds great.
Glenn: Do you plan to do some more performances as Superfine or even record some new material or was it just a special Tarzana locals one-off?
Rob: We’re doing at least 2 more performances and recording the song. Then we’ll see. We don’t have big plans, but I’ll follow it up. There are probably another 15 or so songs that I started or completely wrote back then that never got released or recorded. I could do one, maybe two albums without writing much new. As long as it feels good, and the guys stay into it, we’ll march on.
What’s cool about that band, is it was sort of ahead of its time sonically in some ways. When I listened to the songs again, they still sound potent.
I’ve always approached my music and art in a way that is relevant in the time it’s in, but also with the vision that it can have a timeless quality as well. I think all my music is holding up pretty well.
Glenn: With regard to Kik Tracee, I never got chance to experience you guys live but I remember seeing a video or two on something like Headbangers Ball or Beavis & Butt-Head. In reality, what was it like making those videos from your point of view?
Rob: Kik Tracee got signed without a demo. I get messages from people on social media that KT was still the best live show they’ve ever seen. Even after all these years.
The videos were fun to make. You felt like a star. They were expensive as hell, but fun. If I ever made a big budget thing like that again, I would want to be more involved in the visual and storyline. Back then you’d just sit at a table and hear the pitches of different directors.
The video I like the best from Kik Tracee, is a live video that Greg, the guitar player edited together from footage in a show in San Antonio. I think it captures the essence of the band better than anything else I’ve seen.
Glenn: Also, if you watch those videos now, what goes through you head looking back on it all?
Rob: It was a good time in my life. I felt like I was finally on my way. We worked hard in that band. And it paid off. We broke up because we got in our own way. The record company wanted more music from us. We were just too disfunctional to make it. In hindsight, I can see now that a good manager could’ve made a difference. They just sat on their hands and catered to the singer. It was a mistake. Our singer could’ve been a star, he was fantastic. But what made that band memorable was the chemistry. But no one around the band really understood that.
It took me awhile, but now when I look back, I feel pretty good about it all. For years, I had a lot of disappointment attached to that experience. Now I’m grateful for it. Even though we never became global superstars, how many people get to do what we did? Very few.
Glenn: Do you miss those days and the image and style that went with it?
I miss the power of the music scene at that time. I miss rock music being culturally relevant. But as far as the attitude and image elements, I’m more a fan and a product of the 90’s than the 80’s.
Glenn: So here's the million-dollar question..... since you had a Superfine reunion – could you see a Kik Tracee reunion taking place, even if it was just for old times sake? Reasons either way... especially since you guys released an album via EMP of unreleased material in 2017 called 'Big Western Sky'.
Rob: It does come up from time to time. The relationships in that band are still complicated, much to my chagrin. I’ll never say never. There have been some new rumblings over the past couple weeks even, but I have no idea.
What I can say is this…my Superfine reunion is about now. It’s about a new energy and there’s possibly a future there. My role in that band is one that I’m still interested in.
If there were to be a Kik Tracee reunion, I think it would be more about closure, and an honoring of the good that we did together, rather than anything new.
Glenn: How did you originally meet the legend that is our well-loved friend, Happenin' Harry?
Rob: To be honest, I’ve known Happenin’ Harry so long I can’t remember meeting him! I feel like he’s just always been in my life. At least since Kik Tracee happened. He’s one of the most kind hearted people I know. Always trying to do something good for someone else. And he hasn’t had an easy time of it.
Glenn: Care to tell us about any magically cool moments which involve the man himself without anyone throwing a libel suit at you guys?
Rob: So many times in LA through the years. We travelled in concentric circles, running into each other all over town. The LA scene was like that. It truly was a scene. And he and I were both pretty knee deep in it. It’s hard to explain how it was. There were a slew of clubs, restaurants, meet up spots, etc. around town. And you’d go to any of these and see people you knew. And then the night would go from there. Some of the most fun times though, as lame as it may sound, would just be hanging out at Rock n’ Roll Denny’s at 3am. Half the restaurant would be rockers around town. Harry and I spent plenty of time there.
Glenn: Musically, do you prefer to write songs on electric or acoustic guitar or does it depend on the type of song, where your mind is currently at or where you are at the time?
Rob: Certainly genre matters, but I rarely sit down and think I’m going to write something acoustic. Or electric. I tend to write on whatever is within arm’s reach. It’s an instinct. I’ll pick up anything up, pluck a string, and my head immediately starts thinking, “oh, that’s cool.” I write more on acoustic because that’s just what’s usually lying around. I don’t need to plug it in. So even if the idea is an electric idea, I’ll just imagine what that would sound like. But if I do plug in, that does inspire a different feeling, and I’ll usually come up with something there too.
Glenn: Do you have a particular favorite guitar or two in your collection that you like to play? If so, which ones and why?
Rob: Yes. I’ve got a ’72 Telecaster, and a couple of Strats. I’ve always been more of a Fender guy. But I think that’s just because it’s what I had access to. I have this ’80’s Strat made in Japan that isn’t worth all that much. But something about it just sounds incredible. It’s my main Superfine guitar. It can squeal like a pig and still be controlled and meaty. I tried to find other Japanese Strats from the same period that sound similar because I play in so many tunings, but I haven’t been able to find one. Sometimes you just find some magic.
I also have a Taylor acoustic I really like. Most Taylors are too bright sounding for me, but this one works. I think the model is a 414.
Glenn: What songs mean the most to you and when can we expect to see the release of a full length Rob Grad album as opposed to all the online platforms that so many folk are placing songs on instead?
Rob: I have a song called 'Delicate Badass' that I just put out that really hits home for me. It’s one of the early songs I made from a poem and it addresses the idea of our resilience as humans. And it’s sort of my hope that this instinct will kick in and save us from our self imposed issues on this planet. The old ways of thinking are playing out now to their end. They will either lead to our demise, or we’ll pull it together and realize we’re essentially 8 billion roommates on a planet and we have to learn to live together.
You want to solve the world’s problems overnight? Everyone would just need to be as interested in each other’s well being as our own. Equal. Will it happen? Of course not. We’re too far up our own asses as countries and individuals. But it does give me hope that if we don’t annihilate each other in the meantime, eventually, in a few thousand years, maybe we’ll get it.
Delicate Badass ends with the line, “you can’t not be beautiful. It’s what you are.” It uses the metaphor of a flower as a badass. Often referred to as soft and yielding. But they’re not. We could learn a lot from flowers.
I’ve been putting out a string of singles for right now, working toward an album. I do have a private community of fans that I’ve been spending most of my musical time with. I do livestreams and will start doing events soon. It’s free, if you’re interested in checking it out.
If you go there, you can download an unreleased song and then hop in the group to check it out. Everyone is really cool.
I will release an album of my one man show I did at a Getty event in December with video, and a book later this year. Some of the singles I’m releasing in the meantime will eventually be on there.
Glenn: When I saw you at Maui Sugar Mill Saloon in Tarzana you played alongside another buddy who was also on acoustic guitar. How did you guys meet and what led to this well-suited duo taking place?
Rob: I did that show with Paul Calder. He is the new guitar player for Superfine. I met him years ago, through the bass player from Superfine, Steve Giles. These guys are insanely talented and a pleasure to be around. So when Harry invited me to do some acoustic songs that night, I knew my solo stuff would be too obtuse and mellow for the crowd, so I decided to play Superfine songs and do them with Paul.
Paul, Steve, and the drummer, Geoff have all played together before. So in putting a reboot of Superfine together, it made sense to me to bring together talented people who already were comfortable with each other and had their own chemistry. I stacked the deck. I think it’s the reason the band’s first show all together was such a success.
Glenn: Did it take much practice for you both to nail the songs in acoustic form to perform them together in front of a live audience?
Rob: I was actually surprised how much muscle memory I had for the Superfine songs when I came back to them after all those years. They just sort of flowed. I write in a way that puts the song first. Tone and tracks are secondary. You can play them on anything and they tend to sound pretty good.
Glenn: Which songs would you say you get the biggest kick out of performing live and how was it for you personally? How do you feel it went down with the audience and what was the reception after?
Rob: I had an interesting epiphany around Superfine after all the idle time. I don’t think I was ever able to fully appreciate what made the band great back then. There is a combination of depth and sense of humor in the songs and the vibe. From my wearing pyjamas at the shows to songs like 'Gutterball' and 'Stoner Love'.
'Gutterball' has the line in it, “I slept on your front porch / I worshipped at your feet / I’ve been Richard Pryor with my hair on fire running down your street.” It’s always been a fan favorite. This sort of cynical look at a series of failed relationships, but still looking forward to taking another shot one day.
And 'Stoner Love' was my answer to the blowback after grunge came up against the 80’s. The 80’s bands were HUGE, and then somehow over night it seemed, I found people everywhere pretending they weren’t into it. Or like it never happened. I was like, “what?” So in the chorus of 'Stoner Love', I say “I saw you there/ I don’t care what you say / It happened.”
I loved grunge. I thought it was a shot of reality that fell out of rock music at the end of the 80’s. But don’t pretend you didn’t like it just because it’s not cool anymore. And now it’s back anyway. Fads are fickle. Always will be.
Glenn: Back to art again, you have your own unique style to say the least and without me being lazy and calling it 'layered sculptured expressionism', how would you define it and for what reasons?
Rob: Layered sculptural expressionism isn’t bad! Like music, it took me awhile to really develop my own unique vocabulary in the medium. My art comes from the music. I use a lot of physical layers, which always reminds me of how all the instruments come together to make a recording. Separate them out, and they’re not much. Put them together, and it can be magical. That’s always what I’m looking for.
Conceptually the artwork contrasts calmness of nature with chaos of urban life. So I’m putting visuals next to each other of beautiful nature and graffiti, using wild expressive shapes to intertwine them.
People are layered. Complicated. I try to bring that to the art. And the music. They’re very similar to me.
Glenn: What pieces have been the most thought expanding to create and do you have any particular favourites that you have in your collection so far that bring you the most joy?
Rob: I’ve always been really ambitious creatively. I don’t stay in one place very long and I’m always pushing myself to find something new. So I tend to feel like my best work is still in front of me. But I think that’s also objectively true. I work hard at what I do and I think it continues to grow.
I’ve got a series of artwork called Refuge right now that I’m loving. It uses mirrors, gold leaf and my layered photography and painting. It’s about finding a personal refuge from a chaotic, noisy world, physically, but also emotionally. I’ve got a new series of sculptures I’m working on right now also that I can’t wait to share. But they’re complicated to make, and they’re not there yet.
There is piece in Refuge called “I Wish This Moment Could Last Forever” that is probably my favorite in the series. It’s a multi layered orb floating above a black and white view from the mountains. It’s based on my song “How Would It Feel?” The idea is taking a trip somewhere, and not wanting to go back.
Glenn: Do you find that you get the same enjoyment of looking at / admiring your work as when you are creating it or do you find that once it's created and finished, you are simply ready after a while to start the next one?
Rob: Getting the idea is always the best part for me. The reality never lives up to that moment when I see the potential. A breakthrough. That’s what excites me the most. So by the time an artwork physically exists, I’ve usually moved on mentally already.
But I do have to say, when I send my work off to the museum or gallery for a show, when I attend the opening, I get a little distance from the creation and I really do enjoy seeing them again.
Sometimes I think, 'Wow. I made that.'
If I get that feeling, I know I did something right.
Glenn: What did it take to get your art into exhibitions and would you say there is a lot of competition out there when it comes to being noticed and receiving long-term recognition for your work?
Rob: There’s a ton of competition. But every industry is like that today. With my music, and then with my artwork, I’ve always felt like if you really create what’s unique to you, there is no real competition. All you have to do is be you, make something that people can connect to and doors will open. There’s always room for someone else at the top.
It’s only crowded in the middle.
It did take work to get myself into exhibitions and to make those connections. And I’m still not great about it. I could push it harder. But I do know where I want to go. Again with music and art, I always have the barometer set to make work that will be relevant and meaningful after I’m gone. That’s the kind of work I want to make.
Glenn: What have been the most memorable comments or compliments that you have had about your art that touched you the most and for what reasons?
Rob: When people come up to me, or send me messages, understanding the philosophy and world view I’m sharing in the artwork, and they connect to it, that gives me the most juice. I truly feel that my art and music are just my mediums or conduits for what I’m really trying to do. Which is share a way of seeing the world that actually makes sense, and is transcendent. When I was a teenager, I was miserable. In getting through that time, I asked a lot of existential questions at an early age. It laid the foundation for everything I do.
Being human isn’t for the faint of heart. It’s not easy. At least in our current world. My music and my art are intended to make it a little easier.
Glenn: What is next when it comes to your art and what does something need to have in order to grab you and creatively inspire you?
Rob: My next hurdles are large scale sculptures, installations, and multimedia performances that bring my art and music together. I can’t wait to do my one man show again.
I’m always looking for that rush. That feeling of…”whoa…no one has done that before.” But most of all, my barometer is, if I saw my artwork somewhere and didn’t know who made it, would it blow my mind? Would I wish I had thought of and made that?
Glenn: Same question with regard to music?
Rob: Pretty much the same answer. If I heard something I’m working on and didn’t know who made it, would I wish I’d done it? Does it strike something in me that makes me feel bigger inside?
I’m always looking to make work that fills a void in the world somehow.
My next thing for music is to put out an album and book to go with my multimedia performance and take it out live. I’d love to tour that show.
And as I mentioned, the new Superfine song and upcoming show.
Glenn: What would you say your are most proud of in your career so far and for what reasons?
Rob: Three things come to mind:
1. I was able to pivot from bass to becoming a singer and frontman. It’s what I wanted from the beginning. I never would’ve been creatively fulfilled over time in Kik Tracee. I’m lucky we didn’t do better. As is, it wasn’t easy to break free of my friends and family’s perception of who they thought I was.
2. I was able to start an entire new career in visual art at 40 and have had the kind of success I’ve had. Naivete played a part in that, but I’ll take it. I didn’t realize how much work it was going to take to get here. If I’d known, I don’t think I would’ve gone for it. But now I’m glad I did. It was a dormant part of me I never would’ve even known about without the musical disappointments and failures that led to my even considering giving it a try.
3. I’m also proud that even though both Kik Tracee and Superfine never became globally known, there is a lot of success there that I wasn’t able to fully appreciate until now.
Glenn: What would you like to say to folk who have took the time out to read this Interview?
Rob: Wow! You’re still here? Awesome!
This was a big interview. Thank you for all the great questions. And if you’re still here reading, give me a call :) You’re a hero and we should chat! I’m actually serious, I’m easy to find. I love talking and connecting with people who find meaning in my work. I hope you enjoyed this interview and / or found some inspiration in what I shared.
Here are two great ways to connect with me:
1. I send out emails to my email family every couple weeks with all kinds of stories, art, music 1st dibs, and experiences. You can sign up here if you’d like to be a part of it. I get told a lot that people really look forward to the emails. http://robgrad.com/vip
2. Join my community. It’s free and low key. This is more specifically music focused: http://freesong.robgrad.com
Just sign up for the free song and you’re in. You’ll get an email after that that gives you the rest of the info.
A massive thank you to Rob Grad for his time doing this extremely in-depth interview
as well as special extra thanks to Happenin' Harry for connecting us and all the staff, musicians
and great people overall at Maui Sugar Mill Saloon in Tarzana, California, USA.
Disclaimer: Credit to the original owners who took the photographs of Kik Tracee, Rob in the Art Studio and Gallery etc.